Why lowered bass Briggs tuning?

[Steve Jeter]

 I may get ripped a new one for asking this, but I want to know. I dont work good on "just do it"

 I need to know why to do it that way.

 If the Briggs is just that 1 string lowered, what are the advantages to this tuning ,over tuning in open D ?  dADF#A

 If it is purely historical , I understand ,, and am not challenging that. But with my lack of knowledge being so green, it would be great to know.

 I put that bass up to A and feel more comfy.  But if there is a reason, and I am missing out here , maybe somebody will inform me here.

 again NO  criticism to Briggs , or the folks who use this ,,, I am just trying to understand.

 I know I ask a lot of question, but Im not sure how else to learn. Nobody around here plays Minsterel Banjo

 Thanks

Steve

[Greg Adams]

Steve,

Good questions (don't stop asking them). This site is a great place for collective knowledge.

The greater number of 19th century banjo tunes are generally arranged for low-bass tuning (e.g., dGDF#A). On a previous incarnation of this list (on google) many of us went through each of the tutors, looking at the melodic range of each piece, to determine how many of these pieces 1) even required the bass string (i.e., could the string be ignored while keeping the tune in tact) or 2) could/should be played in low or raised bass (dGDF#A vs. dADF#A). Some of the tunes in Briggs (e.g., Old Dan Tucker) didn't necessarily require the bass string to functionally produce the melody (although it adds a lot when the full chord is sounded); some need to be in low bass in order to play the melody (e.g., Briggs Jig with the descending scale in the A part); some could use raised bass as directed (e.g., This Side of Jordan; although an enterprising individual could do it in low bass tuning). Once you move beyond Briggs into other tutors and build repertoire and technique, you'll come to decide what works best for you as well as how you play the pieces with other musicians. 

I'm sure other members of this group will be able to offer additional insight, advice, and personal experiences on how they reconcile(d) the same questions you are asking (and, hopefully, questions that we can get a lot more people to ask). Heck I'm still working it all out for myself.

Keep us posted on your progress,

Greg

[Carl Anderton]

Tune where you feel most comfortable.  Both G/D and A/E tunings are extensively documented for the period.  If you prefer the higher tuning, by all means use it.  I noticed Ian is up in A for his Grape Vine Twist video.  

 

I use the Briggs tuning most often because my singing resembles a cat in heat in the higher register.  In the Briggs tuning, it just resembles a regular cat.

 

edit:  I just realized you were talking high bass vs. low bass, not G/D vs. A/E, so my comments are irrelevant and may be ignored.

[Steve Jeter]

 Thanks

 at the risk  seeming like I have something brown on the end of my nose LOL  I  watch & listen  to you guys, and think ,dang I want to do that.   So I m just doing what I can to pursue it.

what yall do is much more impressive and exciting to me than 30 scruggs guys going plink plink plink   etc etc ........

[Trapdoor2]

Esp. for the early banjo it helps me to think of the banjo as a "single line" instrument, like a clarinet or a trumpet rather than a chordal instrument like a guitar or piano. Having that lower bass string adds a full step to the instrument's range. This opens up some additional opportunities for melody and harmonies as well as somewhat changing the tonal character of the bass end of the instrument. Although not really common in the early period, that extended range bass string became very important as a solo voice in the 1880-1900 time period. One of the characteristic sounds that filtered down from the early banjo era was the bass slide, grabbing a big fretless slide on that bass string became something of an idiomatic phrase tied to the playing styles of the negro slaves.

AFAIK, harmonically, this tuning (dGDF#A) works best with tunes in G. Raise the bass and it works best with tunes in D.

By the time the banjo becomes a fully orchestral instrument (~1880's) the effective range of the instrument becomes a selling-point and having 3 usable octaves is a great thing (you get exactly 3 octaves with the Briggs type tuning and 22 frets). The tuning scheme  was raised to gCGBD but the relationship between the strings is the same as Briggs. Most of the "name" players of the day will later relate that they rarely (if ever) tune the bass up to get that "open" tuning.

The changing nature of an evolving instrument took the banjo from a melodic, "single line" instrument to a chord-based folk instrument. When you want to play full 4-string chords, the raised-bass tuning is king...but that didn't really happen until somebody named Earl Scruggs made it popular. When you think of the OT repretoire and style, it is almost always tunes played out of some sort of "open" scheme. I think this is because the people playing it were looking for the easiest way to play the tunes they liked out of the first position rather than attempt to work "up the neck". Like Stringbean said, "ain't no money above the 5th fret!"

[Rob Morrison]

Steve--

I've noticed over the years that many of the older tunes don't require the use of that bass string at all.  Remember that the banjo started with three melody strings, or fewer, and the drone string.  As was peviously pointed out, by lowering this string in pitch, one gets additional range for the instrument.  The cost is having to play a closed chord, versus open tuning.   It's good to experiment, however.  I find that certain tunes, such as "Sugar Cane Dance," play easier in the "wrong"  tuning, i.e. high bass intead of low bass.  In any case it's a good thing to learn both.  The low G on the bass string in low bass tuning can have a marvelous sounding, growly timbre on some banjos.

Rob Morrison

[John Masciale]

I generally don't like changing the tuning on my strings, but at times I'm willing to make an exception for the bass string.  There are some tunes in Briggs D that having that lower string as a G is a nuissance, and tuning it to A makes the whole song effortless, especially if I am singing at the same time that I am playing.  I tune the bass to A for those.

[Tim Twiss]

I almost never tune to "High Bass" unless the move is extremely awkward. I posted the only 2 songs I use it on. Anthony Street Reel is really necessary, and I added one (Durang's Hornpipe) just to make it worth the trouble.

[Joel Hooks]

I'm with Tim.  Standard as much as possible.  Not that this applies exactly, but I have heard rumors that Van Eps never tuned up the bass string, but that could just be lore.

[Joel Hooks]

"Sugar Cane Dance" is from Converse's '86 ABM... not an "early tune."  Bob Flesher was incorrecto in his simplified method.

 

Of course, if it is in "Buckley's Guide, '68" and I am not seeing it, please correct me, but page 95 of the ABM clearly states "original for this work" and that would make our hero FBC a fibber.

 

The piece also makes use of the forth string open in the repeat of the fist line as it modulates from "A" to "E" for the second phrase.  

 

Flesher also leaves out the quadruplets beginning each phrase, an important effect.

[Tim Twiss]

Joel, I'm not sure where this is coming from. Is it a new discussion, or does it have something to do with high/low bass topic?

deuceswilde said:

"Sugar Cane Dance" is from Converse's '86 ABM... not an "early tune."  Bob Flesher was incorrecto in his simplified method.

 

Of course, if it is in "Buckley's Guide, '68" and I am not seeing it, please correct me, but page 95 of the ABM clearly states "original for this work" and that would make our hero FBC a fibber.

 

The piece also makes use of the forth string open in the repeat of the fist line as it modulates from "A" to "E" for the second phrase.  

 

Flesher also leaves out the quadruplets beginning each phrase, an important effect.

[Joel Hooks]

See Rob's remark above.

[Tim Twiss]

Oh , sorry. Yes, the open "A".