Wooden dowel key question

[Anthony G Spangler]

Hi all,

I am hip deep in my first go at building a banjo.  It's a 25" (or is that 25 1/2") scale mixture of information taken from a variety of sources, so it looks "like" a banjo, but not like any particular banjo, heh.  The rim is three plies of steam bent ash, not the best, but pretty well glued, with just a couple of small gaps.  The neck is poplar with an East Indian Rosewood finger board, and it'll use wooden pegs, violin pegs for this go round, I expect.  Also, it'll be a tackhead.  I'm squeaking in on getting a nice snug fit to the heel, and here's my question.  I've seen pictures of dowels held in place by means of a wooden key or wedge.  Jason Stamper and flatfoot johnny on here have photos showing this.  What keeps that key from falling out?

That's probably a pretty novice question, but I'm still playing that card.  I would imagine the string tension must do something to hold everything together, but not until they are all tuned up, probably?

It's still a bit rough looking, but still very much "in process".

Thanks in advance!

Tony

[Ian Bell]

That looks pretty slick to me. Nice job. You're right about the string tension, but the key really helps. The key needs to be tapered, as does the mortise it goes into - with the flat side against the rim. Tap it in gently. Even with a taper, I have to admit mine have slipped out once or twice. (It gets really dry up here in the winter) - at which point I pick 'em up and shove 'em back in. Some of the more experienced makers may have better/other advice.

[Anthony G Spangler]

Thank you, Ian!  So it really is just a locking wedge, then!  What kind of angle should it have?  It's a bit hard to tell from the photos I've seen, but I'd imagine you wouldn't want it too steep or it would fall out more often.

Thanks again,

Tony

[Ian Bell]

Not sure how to describe the taper. "Not much", springs to mind.
I've never actually done this, but It just occurred to me that you could probably use a violin or viola tuning peg with the head cut off, and just taper the hole with the same reamer the you're eventually going to have to use on the peghead.

[Ian Bell]

Terry or Jay or Jeff - would you care to venture an opinion on this? I shouldn't really spout ideas without having tried them.

[Bell Banjos]

If you used epoxy or hide glue for your heel-dowel connection, do like Ian said and make a tapered hole for a peg. It's easier than a wedge. If you used wood glue, don't use a wedge or a peg. Sometimes yellow wood glue joints can creep and be pulled apart. There's a special way to make this tenon which you probably weren't aware of. It's fine like it is, the tailpiece tension will hold the rim very tight to the heel. Looks nice!!

[Anthony G Spangler]

Thanks, Ian and Terry!

That goes right along with what a woodworking coworker was describing on similar (but non instrumental) things he's built.  He drills a hole just enough off center that driving in a dowel in snugs the joint up tight.  He tapers the dowel just enough to let it lead into the hole.  As to the construction, I took what I thought was the easiest path and made the neck and dowel all one piece (not so sure about that, now, heh).  That brings all it's own set of grief, er, learning experiences!  I'd be interested to learn that tenon method!

Thank you!

Tony

[Ian Bell]

Thanks for weighing in on that Terry. Now I want to build another banjo - just to try the fiddle-peg key. I've always whittled wedges and just kind of guessed at the taper of the mortise. (Now that I look at my T. Bell banjo I see it's got a round key - that hasn't fallen out yet! Should have looked at that first.)

[Steve Jeter]

good looking banjo!

[Anthony G Spangler]

Thanks, Steve!