The Gray Area

[Tim Twiss]

There is a murky area of banjo history which gives rise to many opinions...and speculation. It has to do with transitions between fretless and fretted....stroke and fingerstyle. With some music music it just becomes obvious, and others...not so much. Buckley, in particular,  leaves us hanging. He describes both styles in his book, poses with a fretted, and gives very little indication as to what to do for the most part but includes pieces which adapt well to either style. I say the best way is experiment...try it all ways. Nothing wrong with stroking a fretted on this site, or picking a fretless, or fricking a petless... I mean striking the stroke...or whatever. Anyway, I have had the good fortune to borrow a fretted instrument. It is a Luscomb restored by a great local repairman Jeff Branch. It has given me an opportunity to try things I have previously only done on fretless...and in some cases it was obvious that a fretted instrument would have been the proper choice. I'm not sure where we divide at, but certainly all this music needs to be looked at from all possible angles...otherwise, how will we know??     

[Sylvia]

Hi Tim, how about.... playing the Banjo whichever way feels more comfortable to the individual player.

I have the Briggs and Converse "Centerstream " books and like the tunes in them but have felt very guilty about playing them " finger style " so have neglected them for quite a while ,until just the other day, when I decided to stop feeling guilty and play them in the style with which I feel most comfortable.

So now my take on it is...... rather than not play them at all, play them the way I want to.

Can I also say that it's nice to see you over on Classic.  

[Sylvia]

P.S.  Have just visited Classic and seen your videos.  Brilliant.  Noticed how you used both styles and don't know how I missed them on here.   OOps    : )  sorry.

[Tim Twiss]

I agree Sylvia, that one can play music however they choose. Forums like this provide an opportunity for folks to take a deep look. I am being drawn towards getting inside the 19th Century mind....trying to find out the intention of the artist/composer/player for music left to us.  Fretted/not fretted....fast/slow....stroke/fingerstyle....accompanied/solo....many variations and contextual situations. Try 'em and share 'em.  

[Sylvia]

or perhaps a bit of each ?  I did try stroke but found my fingers just wouldn't co-operate :( 

[Tim Twiss]

I wonder why we don't see more players using stroke style on a fretted instrument?? 

[Rob Morrison]

Tim--This is an interesting topic to me because I have been restoring old banjos for thirty some years and have several banjos that would fit in the "transitional" period, that is early fretted manufactured banjos.  At present I have three banjos that I enjoy playing very much for what I consider "transitional" tunes.  By that I mean tunes that have a lot going on up the neck on more than one string.  Examples might be "Jig Hornpipe" and "Buckley's Nine O'clock Bell Jig."  The banjos in question are a trade banjo circa 1885, a Charles Dobson Banjo cica 1886, and a James Morrison (no relation) banjo, circa 1895.  All have 11 and 1/2 inch heads and are set up with gut strings.   They sound good and play well for either downstroke playing or finger-picking.  Not all banjos from this era do.  I have a George Washburn that is a good finger picker but not so good as a down stroker.  Some tunes that might be a bear to play downstroke on a fretless banjo are great fun with the frets.  And hey, it's not really cheating!

[Trapdoor2]

I would say that most modern players are reacting to the "fad" of fretless playing. I, for one, never considered playing stroke style on my fretted instruments. Thinking back on it, I really just wanted to play an instrument that suited the period and style the best. Even now that I have a better understanding of this 'gray area', I'm still prone to going fretless to play stroke-style.

Quite frankly, my brain has difficulty switching gears like that. Somebody will ask me to play a stroke-style tune on my clawhammer banjo and I'll spend the next 5 minutes or so trying to get my brain cells convinced "Briggs Jig" can actually be done on a fretted banjo.

Hand me the Asborn and I'll trot it right out. Odd how the brain works sometimes.

Tim Twiss said:

I wonder why we don't see more players using stroke style on a fretted instrument?? 

[Dan Gibson]

I've been playing fretted clawhammer for a long time. I'm a newbie to unfretted strokestyle.  However, I find that since I've been concentrating so hard to get my strokestyle to sound decent, some of it is leaking into the clawhammer playing -- the odd thumb lead; melody note played on the fifth string (sometimes doubled); triplets, nail slides, etc.  I've always played what is known as the Galax Lick, but which seems to have its origins in stroke style.  And, I do play some of the stroke style tunes on my fretted Lee banjo -- it's great fun to introduce them to an Old Time jam session and listen to everyone pick up on them.

Trapdoor2 said:

I would say that most modern players are reacting to the "fad" of fretless playing. I, for one, never considered playing stroke style on my fretted instruments. Thinking back on it, I really just wanted to play an instrument that suited the period and style the best. Even now that I have a better understanding of this 'gray area', I'm still prone to going fretless to play stroke-style.

Quite frankly, my brain has difficulty switching gears like that. Somebody will ask me to play a stroke-style tune on my clawhammer banjo and I'll spend the next 5 minutes or so trying to get my brain cells convinced "Briggs Jig" can actually be done on a fretted banjo.

Hand me the Asborn and I'll trot it right out. Odd how the brain works sometimes.

Tim Twiss said:

I wonder why we don't see more players using stroke style on a fretted instrument?? 

[Carl Anderton]

Rob, I hope you'll bring some of those banjos with you to the Gathering again this year!

 

Rob Morrison said:

Tim--This is an interesting topic to me because I have been restoring old banjos for thirty some years and have several banjos that would fit in the "transitional" period, that is early fretted manufactured banjos.  At present I have three banjos that I enjoy playing very much for what I consider "transitional" tunes.  By that I mean tunes that have a lot going on up the neck on more than one string.  Examples might be "Jig Hornpipe" and "Buckley's Nine O'clock Bell Jig."  The banjos in question are a trade banjo circa 1885, a Charles Dobson Banjo cica 1886, and a James Morrison (no relation) banjo, circa 1895.  All have 11 and 1/2 inch heads and are set up with gut strings.   They sound good and play well for either downstroke playing or finger-picking.  Not all banjos from this era do.  I have a George Washburn that is a good finger picker but not so good as a down stroker.  Some tunes that might be a bear to play downstroke on a fretless banjo are great fun with the frets.  And hey, it's not really cheating!

[Rob Morrison]

Carl--

I'm planning to bring them.--Rob

[Tim Twiss]

I am appreciating the progression...the inreased complexity of the tunes follows (or leads) advancements in instrument technology. I think fretted banjos were in full use by the time Buckley was adapting all those fiddle tunes and more complicated dance forms with chords...beginning in 1860. I think things moved as fast (or faster) than the coming of Les Paul and Leo Fender with their contributions to the modern guitar. I'm going to skim the Buckley 1860 and post a few tunes that are good "Stroke/Fretted" combos.  

[George Wunderlich]

I love this discussion.  What is odd is that Converse wrote in '65 that fretless with markers was the way to go, so fretless seems to have really hung in there through the end of the war.