Original banjo rims.

[Carl Anderton]

Can someone discourse on banjo rims during "our" era?  Single ply, I assume?  Was this universal?

[razyn]

It was universal before plywood was invented. More or less 1850, patents by John Henry Belter (in NY) and a few others. Belter was doing rococo, pierced carving through almost cylindrical rosewood chair backs -- can't do that with solid rosewood, unless you hollow out a really big tree, for each chair. (Or hollow out a smaller tree for a banjo rim.) Anyway, cross-grain lamination was a response to the difficulty of bending -- and ease of splitting along grain lines, when one carves -- very dense and brittle woods.

[Tim Twiss]

So a multi-ply rim is a compromise to a true reproduction instrument?

[Carl Anderton]

Tim Twiss said:

So a multi-ply rim is a compromise to a true reproduction instrument?

That is the question I wish someone would answer.

[Tim Twiss]

I see on the Hartel site that the Ashborn repro has a bent maple rim. What is yours like Carl? Is it one piece of wood?

[razyn]

I don't think it's necessary to reproduce an 1840s rim, to reenact the CW of the 1860s -- by which time "plywood" (or cross-grain lamination, to get strength, stability and workability in curved shapes) was widespread.

I don't think the minstrel groups of the earlier 1840s could have had laminated rims, though. If someone knows better, I'd like to hear about the evidence.

[Brian Welch]

razyn said:

I don't think it's necessary to reproduce an 1840s rim, to reenact the CW of the 1860s -- by which time "plywood" (or cross-grain lamination, to get strength, stability and workability in curved shapes) was widespread.

I don't think the minstrel groups of the earlier 1840s could have had laminated rims, though. If someone knows better, I'd like to hear about the evidence.

I see no evidence that multi-ply rims were used until the twentieth century. There doesn't seem to be that much written about it, although it seems that early Gibson banjos had single-ply rims--and they didn't start making banjos until 1918. I tried to look at various histories of drum shells, since the technology is pretty much the same, and it seems that multi-ply drum shells didn't really come into use until about 1920. So I would say single-ply is the rule, whether we are talking 1840 or 1860 or 1880.

--Brian

[James Tyler]

multiply banjo rim evidence: hasn't anyone noticed the 1863 Morell rim in the photo posted right here on your own site?

Brian Welch said:

razyn said:

I don't think it's necessary to reproduce an 1840s rim, to reenact the CW of the 1860s -- by which time "plywood" (or cross-grain lamination, to get strength, stability and workability in curved shapes) was widespread.

I don't think the minstrel groups of the earlier 1840s could have had laminated rims, though. If someone knows better, I'd like to hear about the evidence.

I see no evidence that multi-ply rims were used until the twentieth century. There doesn't seem to be that much written about it, although it seems that early Gibson banjos had single-ply rims--and they didn't start making banjos until 1918. I tried to look at various histories of drum shells, since the technology is pretty much the same, and it seems that multi-ply drum shells didn't really come into use until about 1920. So I would say single-ply is the rule, whether we are talking 1840 or 1860 or 1880.

--Brian

[razyn]

James Tyler said:

multiply banjo rim evidence: hasn't anyone noticed the 1863 Morell rim in the photo posted right here on your own site?

Looks to me like a single (hickory?) slat, that overlaps itself all the way around -- not just up near the neck, after completing one loop. Which is what I'm used to seeing. Your point is well taken, though. I guess somebody needs to look at a lot of pictures. (Or ask George, Greg, Bob...)

[Tim Twiss]

Perhaps at some point Greg or George, who handled all those instruments in the Banjo Database could shed some light on the situation....development of the rim?