English banjo publication from 1835!

[Rob MacKillop]

Well, that's what is claimed here

 

http://www.sheetmusicwarehouse.co.uk/details.php?ref=57775

 

Anyone want to buy it to find out?

 

 

[Tim Twiss]

Maybe Dan Emmett snuck overseas and had a writing spree without telling anybody. The date certainly predates the origin of these songs by a bit. Too bad we can't just see it to clarify the wierd date, or whatever.

[Trapdoor2]

Polk Miller was a famous recording artist at the turn of the century (1900) for Edison. No idea about Polk Smith.

Perhaps further enquiry is justified? As Brit copyrights are very different than US ones (and almost never seen on sheet music), I wonder how it can be properly dated...

[John Masciale]

The book references the Ethiopian Serenaders, who appeared in England in the early through middle 40s, and appeared before Queen Victoria. I don't see how it can possibly be earlier than 1841.

[Rob MacKillop]

I've written to the owner of the site asking for clarification. I suspect they are piano arrangements, and the date is unsubstantiated. I'll keep you posted.

[razyn]

That publisher, W. Wybrow, was active 1821-43, according to a listing I saw from an Australian music dealer. Seller of this item may be guesstimating... I'm just guesstimating, though. It would be very strange if this American art form saw print in England before America.

[Rob MacKillop]

The seller insists the date is right, but says it is indeed arrangements for the piano. Still, if one were looking to recreate banjo music from the 1830s, this would be invaluable. Here is his response:

>>>Thank you for your enquiry regarding Stock Ref. 57775 'Real Banjo Quadrilles'. The sheet was published in 1835 but is arranged for piano as the part is written across the treble and bass clef.br />
Could this really be the earliest printed source of minstrel music? And published in England? I'll buy it, with the proviso I can return it of the date is wrong, and I'll let you know what exactly is going on.

[Tim Twiss]

There is no evidence to support the date of the titles listed by the seller, especially those associated with Dan Emmett.

[Rob MacKillop]

Do you mean the other items in his stock?

[Tim Twiss]

No..these from that link.
Contains Lucy Neal, Goin ober de mountain, Dan Tucker, Lucy Long, Buffalo gals, Bamjo song, New England, Mrs trollope's fancy, Post horn galop and Cellarius dignity ball waltz

[razyn]

I started a thread a few years ago on the Tom Briggs group about an 1840 dated piece of minstrel music (for piano) that pictured and named the musicians. So, I don't think it's impossible; just unlikely, and strange. "Backside Albany" was performed in blackface in 1815 (banjo not mentioned), and published as a broadside in Cincinnati in 1826. Some of this stuff was "out there" well before Dan Emmett invented whatever he's supposed to have invented in New York in 1843.

http://groups.google.com/group/tom-briggs/browse_thread/thread/cab9...

Whether Emmett actually originated the specific pieces of repertoire mentioned by Tim, I don't know. Several things seem to be "associated" with him that he didn't actually originate.

[John Masciale]

Sweeney didn't make it over to England till 42. Emmett and the Virginia Minstrels in 43. The earliest possible date I have for the Ethiopian Serenaders is 41, and that is not a direct reference, just that Johnny Diamond joined the Ethiopian Serenaders in England after leaving Barnum, which was 41.

Tom Rice was in England during the mid 30s, so it would not surprise me to see songs like Back Side of Albany, Coal Black Rose, Long Tail Blue, and Clare de Kitchen, and Jump Jim Crow. I would not have expected to see the songs listsed, although many of them are old, and could be mid 30s. But Lucy Neal and Buffalo Gals are very solidly dated at 1844.

If the 1835 date were true, we'd all be reading about the Ethiopian Serenaders being the first minstrel band, rather than the Virginia Minstrels. Edwin Christy, who always wanted to be first in everything contested that he was before the Virginia Minstrels. If there were a chance that the Ethiopian Serenaders were performing first, I'm sure he would have had some thing to say about that...

[Rob MacKillop]

Well, here it is as a pdf file for your perusal. You will see that there is NO date on it, and, yes, I will get my money back! It might still be of interest to some of you here, though.