DNA of melodies

[Tim Twiss]

Any "pure" melodies in early Minstrel music? Most have a European antecedent. I know the chorus of "Boatman's Dance" was supposed to have come from the black river men, but I can't think of that many others. Hans Nathan did a pretty good job of tracing the melodic origins of many early Minstrel songs.

[Strumelia]

By "pure" do you mean of African American and/or African slave origin?

[Tim Twiss]

Perhaps anything other than European import.

[John Masciale]

Foster claimed to make a living by song writing.  Certainly there was some originality there.  Emmett certainly borrowed things, but there was some original work in there as well.  I think of Henry Work and George Root when I look for original works, and then there is Septimus Winner.  The Buckleys wrote a number of tunes.  I can't say how much they borrowed.  It was a common practice to borrow tunes and phrases.  Converse also wrote some things.  It would be quite a study to try and divine what was original and what was borrowed.

[Tim Twiss]

okay...sorry. I was thinking mostly of the earliest repertoire. I should have been clearer.

[Mark Weems]

Four Sweeny pieces - Jenny Get Your Hoe Cake Done, Jonny Boker, Ole Tare River, Ole Virginy Break Down, have no known European antecedents. At least Nathan and Mahar didn't find any. 

[Tim Twiss]

You're right Mark. They are not listed with any.

Just a hunch, is that they are lurking in there someplace. It is a daunting task to search English Folk Music. Anybody have good sources? I don't think finding the melodies would be as easy or direct as the Irish material. As I look at the work of Hans Nathan, you have to sift through different keys and look for the essential contour of the melody...and that takes some time. Here is a source I found, although I have not cracked it yet.

http://www.efdss.org/library-and-archive

[John Masciale]

You've got to look at the English, Scottish, and Irish publications published in their own countries.  We have found at least for Scottish tunes that things change a surprising amount as they have crossed the Atlantic.  An even more challenging task is trying to discern what came from African American sources.  We know of a few tunes, but that's about it.  My take on all of this is that America was not just a melting pot culturally but musically as well.  The more I have been able to compare (and Elaine has now done some extensive work) the more I have to conclude that music was anything but static here in the US. 

[Wes Merchant]

https://ia601606.us.archive.org/26/items/truenegr00murp/truenegr00m...

This is an interesting article that may relate.

[Wes Merchant]

A few other links:

http://digital.nls.uk/special-collections-of-printed-music/pageturn...

http://library.efdss.org/cgi-bin/dancebooks.cgi

http://www.asaplive.com/farnecat/browse_by_collection.asp

http://www.itma.ie/digitallibrary/pdfdownloads