Fretted / Fretless

[Tim Twiss]

There is no clear line where fretless ends and fretted starts. I''m glad Rob is posting a lot of these on an appropriate fretted instrument fingerstyle. Comparing our versions helps clarify that line. I like all the recent ones you put up. I can respect your effort for "fingerstyle Briggs' " etc., as it kind of meets my research in the middle....approaching it from the other end.  I know I have ventured far into what is "fretted territory" with what I do. Some of it works...and some not so well, but it is worth the experiment. A lot of our banjo experiments fall into the "possible, but not the best" idea. This kind of investigation will bring out clearer lines to us on what was done in those times, and where it was just commonplace to use a fretted. On the other hand, much of the early repertoire is so obviously Stroke and frettless, although other ways are possible. We just gotta play 'em all and "be there" in time travel...then you can tell. Such a mystery is this material....as I said before, the lack of direction is a blessing AND a curse.   

[Ian Bell]

"Ear players"? - "Simple Method Humbugs"? - Sir, I resemble that remark!



deuceswilde said:

As to fretted, fretless, stroke or guitar. Many later tutors were still publishing the same old pieces, these were books teaching guitar style. Then there is Stewart publishing these pieces "Suitable for either stroke or fingerstyle."

I think that we can safely put this to rest that these were played both ways. One should also take into account that even in the late 1880s tackhead tubs could still be bought, new.

There is something to be said for banjo style and shaking the room. There is no substitute for punching out a tune and getting a audience excited.

There are no clear lines for this stuff. And I think that thimble playing late century was more common than what documentation would have us believe.

Of course, those were likely "ear players" or "simple method humbugs."

[Rob MacKillop]

This is all fascinating stuff! Fretted as early as 1852, and fingerstyle to boot.

Regarding the lowly standard of the negro busker - it's not the issue. What I find interesting is that he was playing in what we would now call two-finger style and using (in modern pitch) Double-C Tuning. Clearly a genuine folk style that survived into the 20th century and beyond.

What a rich and exciting period, with innovations every week. Impossible to pin down, and all the better for it.

My fingerstyle Briggs is not me saying, 'this is how it sounded'. Rather, I am using that material to gain an insight into an early fingerstyle technique.

Carl, if you have the time, it would be great to a have a chapter and verse citation for Converse's claims that G. Swain B. was playing fretted instruments fingerstyle from an early date.

[Carl Anderton]

Rob, the specific article that I got the Buckley quote comes from The Cadenza, August 1901 issue, page 15.

Regarding the black banjo players tuning, and I don't want do be arguementative with you in any way, but I will opine, that this tuning was more representative of this particular banjo players comic act, i.e. "fro de banjo out'a tune," than it was of Double-C tuning being in regular use in the 1850's.

Rob MacKillop said:

This is all fascinating stuff! Fretted as early as 1852, and fingerstyle to boot.

Regarding the lowly standard of the negro busker - it's not the issue. What I find interesting is that he was playing in what we would now call two-finger style and using (in modern pitch) Double-C Tuning. Clearly a genuine folk style that survived into the 20th century and beyond.

What a rich and exciting period, with innovations every week. Impossible to pin down, and all the better for it.

My fingerstyle Briggs is not me saying, 'this is how it sounded'. Rather, I am using that material to gain an insight into an early fingerstyle technique.

Carl, if you have the time, it would be great to a have a chapter and verse citation for Converse's claims that G. Swain B. was playing fretted instruments fingerstyle from an early date.

[Rob MacKillop]

Thanks for the citation, and I agree that we can't deduce absolute facts from any statements. I wasn't arguing Double-C was in 'regular use'. But it is evidence for two-finger technique and at least one altered tuning, no matter how contrived.

[Tim Twiss]

As this topic sways over into "Stroke vs. Fingerstyle" I thought I would post this one. Rob, do you have the Green Converse? I would think you would have jumped all over this one. It is what most people would play as Stroke, but specifically says "guitar fingering".

[Rob MacKillop]

Thanks for reminding me, Tim. I do have it, and remember smiling at it a few months back :-)

I'm smiling again...must include it on my Briggs in Fingerstyle page.