early black banjo piece - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-28T20:41:58Zhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/early-black-banjo-piece?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A12106&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI'm REALLY late responding to…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2009-09-23:2477478:Comment:121062009-09-23T19:49:24.000ZJim Mizehttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JimMize
I'm REALLY late responding to this post, but I'm new to the site and am just now plowing through the discussions. Many of you probably know this already, but Clarke Buehling recorded a nice version of this for his CD remake of his "Out of His Gourd" tape from the '90s. He calls it "Morceau."<br />
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<cite>Rob MacKillop said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/early-black-banjo-piece?id=2477478%3ATopic%3A100&page=2#2477478Comment10923"><div>Well, I'm very late…</div>
</blockquote>
I'm REALLY late responding to this post, but I'm new to the site and am just now plowing through the discussions. Many of you probably know this already, but Clarke Buehling recorded a nice version of this for his CD remake of his "Out of His Gourd" tape from the '90s. He calls it "Morceau."<br />
<br />
<cite>Rob MacKillop said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/early-black-banjo-piece?id=2477478%3ATopic%3A100&page=2#2477478Comment10923"><div>Well, I'm very late responding to this post, but here goes...<br/> <br/>
I've been looking for early pieces to play on a gourd banjo, and this fits the bill perfectly. What I found interesting is that the player was using upstrokes with the index finger - well, that is my interpretation of the text, you might disagree. As my stroke playing is utterly useless, this fills me with hope!<br/>
<br/>
Secondly, clearly Converse couldn't remember exactly the first piece he ever heard, so maybe there is as much Converse in the notation as there is a long-forgotten black player. One is tempted to say it has the wiff of authenticity, but how the hell would I know that? Still, it's a great little piece, which one shouldn't take too literally just because it is written down. I imagine a healthy doze of improv around it would be a good thing.<br/>
<br/>
Looking forward to trying it on my gourd when it arrives in a couple of weeks...<br/>
<br/>
Thanks for posting it, Jim.</div>
</blockquote> Well, I'm very late respondin…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2009-08-01:2477478:Comment:109232009-08-01T10:41:54.000ZRob MacKillophttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/RobMacKillop
Well, I'm very late responding to this post, but here goes...<br />
<br />
I've been looking for early pieces to play on a gourd banjo, and this fits the bill perfectly. What I found interesting is that the player was using upstrokes with the index finger - well, that is my interpretation of the text, you might disagree. As my stroke playing is utterly useless, this fills me with hope!<br />
<br />
Secondly, clearly Converse couldn't remember exactly the first piece he ever heard, so maybe there is as much Converse in…
Well, I'm very late responding to this post, but here goes...<br />
<br />
I've been looking for early pieces to play on a gourd banjo, and this fits the bill perfectly. What I found interesting is that the player was using upstrokes with the index finger - well, that is my interpretation of the text, you might disagree. As my stroke playing is utterly useless, this fills me with hope!<br />
<br />
Secondly, clearly Converse couldn't remember exactly the first piece he ever heard, so maybe there is as much Converse in the notation as there is a long-forgotten black player. One is tempted to say it has the wiff of authenticity, but how the hell would I know that? Still, it's a great little piece, which one shouldn't take too literally just because it is written down. I imagine a healthy doze of improv around it would be a good thing.<br />
<br />
Looking forward to trying it on my gourd when it arrives in a couple of weeks...<br />
<br />
Thanks for posting it, Jim. John,
That's right -- in fac…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-21:2477478:Comment:7032008-11-21T14:33:38.000ZJim Daltonhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JimDalton
John,<br />
<br />
That's right -- in fact, I used to play it that way too.<br />
<br />
I first found that piece in an article by Lowell Schreyer -- a very interesting article about the evolution of ragtime from banjo music. Since tuning wasn't really pertinent to the topic of his article, it wasn't mentioned. So, I learned it the way you describe.<br />
<br />
A few years later, I looked up the original Converse article and now I play it as it appears there.<br />
<br />
It's a good piece either way. I prefer the way the old black player…
John,<br />
<br />
That's right -- in fact, I used to play it that way too.<br />
<br />
I first found that piece in an article by Lowell Schreyer -- a very interesting article about the evolution of ragtime from banjo music. Since tuning wasn't really pertinent to the topic of his article, it wasn't mentioned. So, I learned it the way you describe.<br />
<br />
A few years later, I looked up the original Converse article and now I play it as it appears there.<br />
<br />
It's a good piece either way. I prefer the way the old black player tuned it -- both for historical reasons and because I think it is a bit more idiomatic that way.<br />
<br />
But it ultimately doesn't matter. Besides -- perhaps the main reason to "fro de banjo out a' tune" is to impress the incognoscenti... I'm one of those people who h…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-21:2477478:Comment:7012008-11-21T14:02:53.000ZJohn Mascialehttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JohnMasciale
I'm one of those people who hate having to retune strings on my banjo if I don't have to. Once I get it in tune (lol) I don't like to touch it.<br />
<br />
I finally had a chance to play through this. When playing up on the neck around 5th position, you can easily get the A by playing the third string 5th position. For those of you like me who hate retuning, this make playing this very easy.
I'm one of those people who hate having to retune strings on my banjo if I don't have to. Once I get it in tune (lol) I don't like to touch it.<br />
<br />
I finally had a chance to play through this. When playing up on the neck around 5th position, you can easily get the A by playing the third string 5th position. For those of you like me who hate retuning, this make playing this very easy. Okay. I thought maybe there w…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-10:2477478:Comment:1912008-11-10T14:40:29.000ZTim Twisshttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
Okay. I thought maybe there was one more Buckley we missed. Maybe Zeppo....
Okay. I thought maybe there was one more Buckley we missed. Maybe Zeppo.... Dan'l,
I don't see this as a…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-10:2477478:Comment:1842008-11-10T10:28:21.000ZJim Daltonhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JimDalton
Dan'l,<br />
<br />
I don't see this as an either/or situation.<br />
<br />
Frank Converse, though he was able to read and write music, obviously learned the piece in question by ear.<br />
This kind of thing is also true of many musicians today.<br />
<br />
You are right, however, that we are enriched by the contributions of musicians with both approaches.<br />
<br />
Jim
Dan'l,<br />
<br />
I don't see this as an either/or situation.<br />
<br />
Frank Converse, though he was able to read and write music, obviously learned the piece in question by ear.<br />
This kind of thing is also true of many musicians today.<br />
<br />
You are right, however, that we are enriched by the contributions of musicians with both approaches.<br />
<br />
Jim Frank?tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-10:2477478:Comment:1702008-11-10T03:04:53.000ZTim Twisshttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
Frank?
Frank? Dan'l said:re: Jims' reply "O…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-10:2477478:Comment:1672008-11-10T02:53:12.000ZTim Twisshttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<cite>Dan'l said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/early-black-banjo-piece?page=1&commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A165&x=1#2477478Comment165"><div>re: Jims' reply "Only three that he remembered -- but those three were pretty significant weren't they?...Some people read notes, some people don't. I simply choose to have access to as many sources of information and tunes as possible. I don't denigrate other approaches."<br></br> <br></br> Jim -<br></br>
<br></br>
I totally…</div>
</blockquote>
<cite>Dan'l said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/early-black-banjo-piece?page=1&commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A165&x=1#2477478Comment165"><div>re: Jims' reply "Only three that he remembered -- but those three were pretty significant weren't they?...Some people read notes, some people don't. I simply choose to have access to as many sources of information and tunes as possible. I don't denigrate other approaches."<br/> <br/>
Jim -<br/>
<br/>
I totally see and appreciate your concern. This merely was an unbiased account of conditions at the time, by a peer of both. I felt it interesting that two giants of Minstrel Banjo were mentioned together. They were Joel Sweeney and Frank Buckley. One who mastered his instrument through a black folk tradition, who played by ear; and another who mastered his instrument through trained musicianship, who played from transcript.<br/>
<br/>
We are enriched by the contributions of either or both men... and each other through sites like this.<br/>
<br/>
Dan'l</div>
</blockquote> I agree with using all helps/…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-09:2477478:Comment:1532008-11-09T17:18:30.000ZPaul Certohttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/PaulCerto
I agree with using all helps/resources available. I need all the help I can get! Iplay mostly by ear, and don't use standard notation a lot, and tend to use tab when I first start a new piece, or when I get stuck, but it's good to have them available for those times. I never threw away my screwdriver when I bought pliers, either.<br />
Paul
I agree with using all helps/resources available. I need all the help I can get! Iplay mostly by ear, and don't use standard notation a lot, and tend to use tab when I first start a new piece, or when I get stuck, but it's good to have them available for those times. I never threw away my screwdriver when I bought pliers, either.<br />
Paul John,
I think that is a grea…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2008-11-09:2477478:Comment:1492008-11-09T15:25:12.000ZJim Daltonhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JimDalton
John,<br />
<br />
I think that is a great idea.<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should start a number of different topics (i.e. period tutors, sheet music, modern books, recordings, websites, articles, images, instruments in museum collections etc.). This way we can all contribute to the lists on an ongoing basis as we stumble upon new resources and they would be somewhat organized from the outset.<br />
<br />
I have yet to see a comprehensive list of the 19th century printed materials, for instance.<br />
<br />
Also, the growing online resources…
John,<br />
<br />
I think that is a great idea.<br />
<br />
Perhaps we should start a number of different topics (i.e. period tutors, sheet music, modern books, recordings, websites, articles, images, instruments in museum collections etc.). This way we can all contribute to the lists on an ongoing basis as we stumble upon new resources and they would be somewhat organized from the outset.<br />
<br />
I have yet to see a comprehensive list of the 19th century printed materials, for instance.<br />
<br />
Also, the growing online resources will be easier to keep up with if we all "share the wealth."<br />
<br />
<br />
Jim