24 inch scale why? - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-28T14:29:19Zhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/24-inch-scale-why?feed=yes&xn_auth=noDespite its remote location t…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-05-04:2477478:Comment:1264342015-05-04T20:27:50.818ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
Despite its remote location the city was hugely well connected in the 1860s. But your point about the threads is well taken. I'll look at that more.
Despite its remote location the city was hugely well connected in the 1860s. But your point about the threads is well taken. I'll look at that more. Virginia City, briefly, was a…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-30:2477478:Comment:1267502015-04-30T23:06:39.519ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
<p>Virginia City, briefly, was anything but typical. Ordinary banjo hardware would have been a long (long long) way from Virginia City. However, during the 1860s, the sophisticated mining machine shop would have been readily available. Again, I believe Tom Bree was working there as a machinist. And the wooden portion of the rim is almost identical to that made by his friend Charles Morrell in San Francisco for the Sam Pride banjo in 1863. There is no evidence of any alteration in the banjo…</p>
<p>Virginia City, briefly, was anything but typical. Ordinary banjo hardware would have been a long (long long) way from Virginia City. However, during the 1860s, the sophisticated mining machine shop would have been readily available. Again, I believe Tom Bree was working there as a machinist. And the wooden portion of the rim is almost identical to that made by his friend Charles Morrell in San Francisco for the Sam Pride banjo in 1863. There is no evidence of any alteration in the banjo anywhere. I appreciate the skepticism. I'm just telling you what it looks like from here. My impression is that the banjo was made between 1865 and 1870, Frisbee played it, his son Freddy played it. Then it sat. This area went from amazing connection to outside culture and technology to almost complete isolation by 1915. I'll look more at the hooks and nuts and get back to you.</p> In 1864 in America, William…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-30:2477478:Comment:1267482015-04-30T22:21:46.669ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
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<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/comment/show?id=2477478%3AComment%3A126747&xn_out=json&firstPage=0&lastPage=1&xg_token=3448acc7f7afa42c27529fb51d45f5a3&_=1430432183398#2477478Comment126747"><p>In 1864 in America, William Sellers independently proposed another standard based upon a 60 degree thread form and various thread pitches for different diameters. This became adopted as the U.S. Standard and subsequently developed into the American…</p>
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<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/comment/show?id=2477478%3AComment%3A126747&xn_out=json&firstPage=0&lastPage=1&xg_token=3448acc7f7afa42c27529fb51d45f5a3&_=1430432183398#2477478Comment126747"><p>In 1864 in America, William Sellers independently proposed another standard based upon a 60 degree thread form and various thread pitches for different diameters. This became adopted as the U.S. Standard and subsequently developed into the American Standard Coarse Series (NC) and the Fine Series (NF). The thread form had flat roots and crests that made the screw easier to make than the Whitworth standard that has rounded roots and crests. </p>
<p>Around the same time metric thread standards were being adopted in continental Europe with a number of different thread flank angles being adopted. For example the German Loewenherz had a thread flank angle of 53 degrees 8 minutes and the Swiss Thury thread an angle of 47.5 degrees. The standard international metric thread eventually evolved from German and French metric standards being based upon a 60 degree flank angle with flat crests and rounded roots.</p>
</blockquote> The influx of European and Ea…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-30:2477478:Comment:1267472015-04-30T22:16:22.972ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
<p>The influx of European and Eastern culture and technology to Virginia City during the 1860s was monumental and swift. See page xxi of the introduction to </p>
<h1 class="gb-volume-title" dir="ltr">The Roar and the Silence: A History of Virginia City and the Comstock Lode</h1>
<p><span> </span><span class="addmd">By Ronald Michael James…</span></p>
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<p>The influx of European and Eastern culture and technology to Virginia City during the 1860s was monumental and swift. See page xxi of the introduction to </p>
<h1 class="gb-volume-title" dir="ltr">The Roar and the Silence: A History of Virginia City and the Comstock Lode</h1>
<p><span> </span><span class="addmd">By Ronald Michael James</span></p>
<p><a href="https://books.google.com/books?id=xPFX61yKaNoC&pg=PR21&lpg=PR21&dq=European+technology+Virginia+City+mining&source=bl&ots=PMY2sVKNRv&sig=0ShNdpsIeJTn0czGOFF8BtTzdPI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nqhCVY2iFY60oQSmtoH4Ag&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=European%20technology%20Virginia%20City%20mining&f=false" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/books?id=xPFX61yKaNoC&pg=PR21&lpg=PR21&dq=European+technology+Virginia+City+mining&source=bl&ots=PMY2sVKNRv&sig=0ShNdpsIeJTn0czGOFF8BtTzdPI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nqhCVY2iFY60oQSmtoH4Ag&ved=0CEgQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=European%20technology%20Virginia%20City%20mining&f=false</a></p> The two fifth string pegs. Sh…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-30:2477478:Comment:1264132015-04-30T01:29:30.915ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
The two fifth string pegs. Shot of rim and hook. 3 1/8 inches deep.
The two fifth string pegs. Shot of rim and hook. 3 1/8 inches deep. In a nutshell. There was a b…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-30:2477478:Comment:1264122015-04-30T01:04:05.315ZJoel Hookshttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/deuceswilde
<p>In a nutshell. There was a banjo building duo, Albert Wilson and William Farnham in Troy, NY. They are said to have first made "silver rim" banjos about 1855. Their production was small and the trade was limited to professional minstrels. A defining factor was that the neck was bolted on to the rim.</p>
<p>A little later was Jimmy Clarke (former stage minstrel that contracted TB) of New York City. He made Troy style banjos for pros as well (see the photo of Frank Converse holding a…</p>
<p>In a nutshell. There was a banjo building duo, Albert Wilson and William Farnham in Troy, NY. They are said to have first made "silver rim" banjos about 1855. Their production was small and the trade was limited to professional minstrels. A defining factor was that the neck was bolted on to the rim.</p>
<p>A little later was Jimmy Clarke (former stage minstrel that contracted TB) of New York City. He made Troy style banjos for pros as well (see the photo of Frank Converse holding a banjo in my photos). His was also limited production.</p>
<p>"New York School" banjos (Converse's words) were <em>in the style of</em> Clarke banjos. Or in other words, knock offs-- imitations. These were made <em>to look like</em> what you saw Frank Converse, Horace Weston, George Coes, etc., playing. Think cheap Chinese versions of famous electric guitars-- that is what these were.</p>
<p>Most (if not all) were made by the J. Buckbee factory post war in NYC. These answered a call for the trade. People wanted to play the banjo because they saw a minstrel show. Naturally they wanted banjos like what they saw used on stage. Some of these are good. Some are great. Most… not so much.</p>
<p>Just like today, you will not get the banjo that Bela Fleck plays-- but Gold Tone will sell you one that looks like it made in China.</p>
<p>Hopefully Rob Morrison will chime in. He is the resident authority on early Buckbee banjos.</p> Thanks. Morrell and Bree both…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-29:2477478:Comment:1266662015-04-29T23:39:06.483ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
Thanks. Morrell and Bree both came from New York. What exactly is the New York style of fifth string peg? I have two necks like this that are identical--the ivory around the edge of each peghead. One with ivory pegs. The other with ebony. The latter has the original pot--heavy clad. I'll try to put up shots of the Sam Pride banjo (made by Morrell) inner rim and my inner rim. They are very similar and unusually heavy/reinforced. Add the cladding as on mine and the rim on mine is about 1/2 inch…
Thanks. Morrell and Bree both came from New York. What exactly is the New York style of fifth string peg? I have two necks like this that are identical--the ivory around the edge of each peghead. One with ivory pegs. The other with ebony. The latter has the original pot--heavy clad. I'll try to put up shots of the Sam Pride banjo (made by Morrell) inner rim and my inner rim. They are very similar and unusually heavy/reinforced. Add the cladding as on mine and the rim on mine is about 1/2 inch thick. I'd love to hear some thoughts on this reinforcing. Nice Banjo! It does look on…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-29:2477478:Comment:1267412015-04-29T23:07:22.104ZJoel Hookshttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/deuceswilde
<p>Nice Banjo! It does look on the early side of the 1870s, being well made. I cannot tell from the photos if the peg head inlay is true to the shape of the head. Perhaps the neck had been reworked?</p>
<p>The fifth peg is a nice touch and can be found on other "New York" style banjos. I'm interested in seeing the inside and back of the neck.</p>
<p>For reference as to the challenge of dating banjos I have attached some catalog pages from the 1880s.…</p>
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<p>Nice Banjo! It does look on the early side of the 1870s, being well made. I cannot tell from the photos if the peg head inlay is true to the shape of the head. Perhaps the neck had been reworked?</p>
<p>The fifth peg is a nice touch and can be found on other "New York" style banjos. I'm interested in seeing the inside and back of the neck.</p>
<p>For reference as to the challenge of dating banjos I have attached some catalog pages from the 1880s.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098420?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098420?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098575?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098575?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098710?profile=original" target="_self"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098710?profile=original" width="685" class="align-full"/></a></p>
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<p>And also for reference is a pretty common layout of available hardware from1883.</p>
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<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098639?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/3129098639?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721" class="align-full"/></a></p>
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<p></p> Trying again, Here is the hee…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-29:2477478:Comment:1267372015-04-29T22:00:47.241ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
<p>Trying again, Here is the heel...and cladding.</p>
<p>Trying again, Here is the heel...and cladding.</p> Two more photostag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2015-04-29:2477478:Comment:1265362015-04-29T21:14:33.443ZCW Bayerhttps://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CWBayer
<p>Two more photos</p>
<p>Two more photos</p>