SLIDING BRIDGE - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-29T09:34:45Zhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A50847&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJoel, care to put together a…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-20:2477478:Comment:513452011-09-20T01:41:47.578ZMark Kinanhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/MarkKinan
<p>Joel, care to put together a tutorial video on the technique you're talking about here? I'd love to hear/learn.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge#2477478Comment50373"><div><br></br><p>As follows- holes 1-4 play the tonic chord blow, dominant seventh chord on draw, 4-7 plays the complete diatonic scale, 7-10 partial scale to help complete a tune. It is a absolutely perfect layout and is not…</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Joel, care to put together a tutorial video on the technique you're talking about here? I'd love to hear/learn.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><br/>
<cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge#2477478Comment50373"><div><br/><p>As follows- holes 1-4 play the tonic chord blow, dominant seventh chord on draw, 4-7 plays the complete diatonic scale, 7-10 partial scale to help complete a tune. It is a absolutely perfect layout and is not "missing notes" as every modern instruction book will tell you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Played correctly, the tongue blocks three or four holes to the left while playing one on the right. Lifting and lowering the tongue provides accompaniment for the melody played mostly on 4-10, but sometimes using the lower notes when needed. So 1-4 are the bass and chord buttons on a accordion, and the rest are the right hand buttons. Other than being smaller, easier to carry around, and thinner sounding- they sound almost the same.</p>
<p>Modern (post 1920s) concept of playing in different positions (perhaps brought on by the mongrel push-button harmonicas) on a Richter forces the player to distort reeds to find notes- this destroys harmonicas and thus sells more. Played correctly- they last for many years. Played in modern "positions" perhaps several months. Is there a better way to sell more harmonicas than to encourage people to destroy them?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I always enjoy the reactions I get when I play the harmonica properly- for many it is almost disbelief. People tell me it sounds like a full band. I also roll over the left side of my tongue to get a root-chord, root-chord accompaniment and that causes it to sound like three different parts played at the same time. Most have never heard the harmonica played like this- only in the "blues" style. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I know that this is not the subject being discussed, just a subject I enjoy.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>There is a lot of Hohner propaganda clouding harmonica history and it is very difficult to sort out.</p>
</div>
</blockquote> Terry, thank you- you're righ…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-15:2477478:Comment:507592011-09-15T20:48:47.623ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
Terry, thank you- you're right. I absolutely should get and read that book, I've been meaning to get it for a couple of yrs now. I have "That Half-Barbaric Twang" by Linn and Gura/Bollman's book. I'll order CeCe's book!
Terry, thank you- you're right. I absolutely should get and read that book, I've been meaning to get it for a couple of yrs now. I have "That Half-Barbaric Twang" by Linn and Gura/Bollman's book. I'll order CeCe's book! Strumelia, maybe you have thi…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-15:2477478:Comment:509442011-09-15T02:56:48.424ZBell Banjoshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TerryBell
<p>Strumelia, maybe you have this book, but if not, you'll want it -</p>
<p>"<span id="btAsinTitle">African Banjo Echoes In Appalachia: A Study Of Folk Traditions</span>" by Cecelia Conway.</p>
<p>Strumelia, maybe you have this book, but if not, you'll want it -</p>
<p>"<span id="btAsinTitle">African Banjo Echoes In Appalachia: A Study Of Folk Traditions</span>" by Cecelia Conway.</p> Danl, I take all your points…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-14:2477478:Comment:507562011-09-14T18:22:11.245ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>Danl, I take all your points well. </p>
<blockquote>What's older is slave then Minstrel banjo, both pre-dating the adoption of the instrument in Appalachia and the marriage of Elizabethan and ballad influences on banjo repertoire.</blockquote>
<p>I agree with your above statement. </p>
<p>I hear the English ballad, minstrel, and African influences in early Appalachian banjo styles- these Southern and Appalachian banjo styles having been beautifully laid out and demonstrated by the late Mike…</p>
<p>Danl, I take all your points well. </p>
<blockquote>What's older is slave then Minstrel banjo, both pre-dating the adoption of the instrument in Appalachia and the marriage of Elizabethan and ballad influences on banjo repertoire.</blockquote>
<p>I agree with your above statement. </p>
<p>I hear the English ballad, minstrel, and African influences in early Appalachian banjo styles- these Southern and Appalachian banjo styles having been beautifully laid out and demonstrated by the late Mike Seeger. These recognizable stylistic sounds in mountain banjo playing indeed harken back to earlier times, those of minstrel and slave banjo playing, and Elizabethan balladry. <em>I guess that's the part of Southern Appalachian clawhammer banjo playing that I am hearing, recognizing, and labeling as 'archaic'.</em> Just as with Appalachian ballad traditions, the material and threads of the fabric come from a much older past, and the resultant music bears the stamp of antiquity even if the singer is just a young girl.</p>
<p>Though I see your point and agree with the timeline, little in real life is neatly and cleanly delineated, and I suspect the banjo was sporatically brought to the Appalachians by traders and travelers of various sorts, possibly including some blacks, at some point before the CW. Certainly not common until after the CW as you say, but I still imagine it had begun to appear here and there and be paired with fiddlers. Mine is a combination of intuition and of reading about various Appalachian musical family histories- often colorfully told as passed down over the generations. Little of it provable fact, for sure. I should preface my comments as being <em>my own impressions</em> gleaned from multiple and varied sources over time.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>We should best leave bluegrass banjo out of it altogether, since we all know bluegrass is a modern 1930-40's style that was developed from earlier black up-picking finger styles. "Old-timey banjo" and 'old-time' music I define as assuming the birth date of commercial stringband recordings in the time period of the 1920's.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I do know that Appalachian dulcimers were not as common as romantic descriptions would like us to think. However, even the earliest immigrants were bringing over and/or making their own familiar box zitters such as hummels, epinettes, scheitholts, langspils, etc... various embodiments of which would lead during the mid 1800's to the development of the American fretted lap zither. No one knows the actual date when the Appalachian dulcimer was actually first created, though the earliest verified surviving Appalachian dulcimer was dated 1832, and German scheiholts were being made in Pennsylvania in the late 1700's.</p> I found two more songs today…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-13:2477478:Comment:510472011-09-13T20:41:48.647ZBell Banjoshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TerryBell
I found two more songs today that I just HAVE to sing in A. The only thing I don't like about sliding the bridge is playing over the neck sometimes and banging my recently sprained thumb on the wood +ouch+<br></br>
<br></br>
<cite>Strumelia said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A50751&xg_source=activity#2477478Comment50847"><div><p>Hi Dan'l, thanks for your detailed reply. :)</p>
<p>There's often a big difference as…</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
I found two more songs today that I just HAVE to sing in A. The only thing I don't like about sliding the bridge is playing over the neck sometimes and banging my recently sprained thumb on the wood +ouch+<br/>
<br/>
<cite>Strumelia said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A50751&xg_source=activity#2477478Comment50847"><div><p>Hi Dan'l, thanks for your detailed reply. :)</p>
<p>There's often a big difference as to a date when things started happening, and the date when those things became 'popular and common'- and part of that may be at work here in what we say in our posts.</p>
<p>I think that 'popular' banjo playing among 'civilized' white society is indeed dated as you say- becoming popular after the CW. There is abundant evidence as we all know.</p>
<p>Without setting aside an hour or two of digging up citations in my banjo books, I will take the lazy route here and say that my readings over the years have led me to understand that white Appalachian rural people were playing banjo well before the Civil War. How much earlier is hard to say, because we then wander outside the evidence realm of banjo tutors, minstrel show descriptions, and photographs. As time reaches further back there is naturally less and less hard documentation and more and more anecdotal evidence, particularly in isolated and often poor rural areas. I find in general that there is more writing and stories related to fiddlers of that time and place than there is to banjo players- and that may be partly due to the community respect given to a good fiddler (whether a scoundrel or family man) who was in the position of leading dances in a community. Even today in the old-time and dance scene, fiddlers get all the respect and lowly banjo players are a dime a dozen. ;D</p>
<p>An aside- fiddling was a HUGE influence on rural mountain banjo playing, along with the Elizabethan ballads, travelling Minstrel shows, sea chanteys, slave spirituals and work songs you mentioned.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I realize this has all strayed far from the thread topic, and for that I apologize and am happy to go back to sliding bridges...which I intend to experiment more with this evening on my gourd banjo. :)</p>
</div>
</blockquote> Thanks Joel - that's pretty n…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-13:2477478:Comment:507512011-09-13T19:59:59.430ZIan Bellhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/IanBell
Thanks Joel - that's pretty neat, but the reduction system on the tuning pegs is even better. Wonder how well it worked? Perhaps the fact I've never seen anything like that is my answer.<br></br><br></br><cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite>
<blockquote><div><p>Ian, here is the patent...</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=7H5GAAAAEBAJ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.google.com/patents?id=7H5GAAAAEBAJ</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here is where I got the photo.</p>
<p> …</p>
<p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
Thanks Joel - that's pretty neat, but the reduction system on the tuning pegs is even better. Wonder how well it worked? Perhaps the fact I've never seen anything like that is my answer.<br/><br/><cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite>
<blockquote><div><p>Ian, here is the patent...</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=7H5GAAAAEBAJ">http://www.google.com/patents?id=7H5GAAAAEBAJ</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>Here is where I got the photo.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sternercapo.se/Capomuseum/">http://www.sternercapo.se/Capomuseum/</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote> Hi Dan'l, thanks for your det…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-13:2477478:Comment:508472011-09-13T16:09:44.220ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>Hi Dan'l, thanks for your detailed reply. :)</p>
<p>There's often a big difference as to a date when things started happening, and the date when those things became 'popular and common'- and part of that may be at work here in what we say in our posts.</p>
<p>I think that 'popular' banjo playing among 'civilized' white society is indeed dated as you say- becoming popular after the CW. There is abundant evidence as we all know.</p>
<p>Without setting aside an hour or two of digging up…</p>
<p>Hi Dan'l, thanks for your detailed reply. :)</p>
<p>There's often a big difference as to a date when things started happening, and the date when those things became 'popular and common'- and part of that may be at work here in what we say in our posts.</p>
<p>I think that 'popular' banjo playing among 'civilized' white society is indeed dated as you say- becoming popular after the CW. There is abundant evidence as we all know.</p>
<p>Without setting aside an hour or two of digging up citations in my banjo books, I will take the lazy route here and say that my readings over the years have led me to understand that white Appalachian rural people were playing banjo well before the Civil War. How much earlier is hard to say, because we then wander outside the evidence realm of banjo tutors, minstrel show descriptions, and photographs. As time reaches further back there is naturally less and less hard documentation and more and more anecdotal evidence, particularly in isolated and often poor rural areas. I find in general that there is more writing and stories related to fiddlers of that time and place than there is to banjo players- and that may be partly due to the community respect given to a good fiddler (whether a scoundrel or family man) who was in the position of leading dances in a community. Even today in the old-time and dance scene, fiddlers get all the respect and lowly banjo players are a dime a dozen. ;D</p>
<p>An aside- fiddling was a HUGE influence on rural mountain banjo playing, along with the Elizabethan ballads, travelling Minstrel shows, sea chanteys, slave spirituals and work songs you mentioned.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I realize this has all strayed far from the thread topic, and for that I apologize and am happy to go back to sliding bridges...which I intend to experiment more with this evening on my gourd banjo. :)</p> What does this mean?
Joel Ho…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-13:2477478:Comment:507502011-09-13T12:43:44.787ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>What does this mean?<br/> <br/>
<cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A51037&xg_source=activity#2477478Comment51037"><div><p>Have you met R.D. Lunceford?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>What does this mean?<br/> <br/>
<cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A51037&xg_source=activity#2477478Comment51037"><div><p>Have you met R.D. Lunceford?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote> No I haven't met him.tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-12:2477478:Comment:510382011-09-12T23:55:56.094ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
No I haven't met him.
No I haven't met him. Have you met R.D. Lunceford?…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2011-09-12:2477478:Comment:510372011-09-12T23:36:09.567ZJoel Hookshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/deuceswilde
<p>Have you met R.D. Lunceford?</p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Strumelia said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?xg_source=activity&id=2477478%3ATopic%3A50369&page=2#2477478Comment50940"><div><p>Joel, I guess I am wondering where the music that my husband and I often play fits into the timeline/classification you give above. </p>
<p>What about traditional families like the Hammons family or the Carpenter families, who were taught the banjo and…</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Have you met R.D. Lunceford?</p>
<p> </p>
<p><cite>Strumelia said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/sliding-bridge?xg_source=activity&id=2477478%3ATopic%3A50369&page=2#2477478Comment50940"><div><p>Joel, I guess I am wondering where the music that my husband and I often play fits into the timeline/classification you give above. </p>
<p>What about traditional families like the Hammons family or the Carpenter families, who were taught the banjo and fiddle music of their grandfathers who lived during the Civil war? Their music was for example Kentucky, Virginia, and West Virginia mountain music continuously played and passed down throughout 1800's (and likely starting pre-1800)- crooked fiddle tunes, banjo tunes, ballads- in open cross tunings and such, quite archaic.- is that banjo music to be called 'classic banjo' simply because it was their repertoire between 1880 and 1900? I don't consider that music to be 'old-time' either, since it is well pre-1920's commercial 78's stringband/hillbilly, which heralds the beginning of the 'old-time' label. And it's certainly nothing related to modern bluegrass (post 1930) or folk revival time periods.</p>
<p><br/>But...<em>classic</em>? </p>
<p>Their stuff was not played or found in tutors or in banjo orchestras or college or parlor repertoire- it is much more archaic. That kind of banjo playing just doesn't feel the same as what I think of as 'classic banjo'. So how would one classify the drone-based pre-1920 (which would certainly include the entire span between 1820 or so to say 1920, just to take an example slice) fiddle/banjo repertoire of the mountainous areas of WV and Kentucky? It doesn't seem to jive with any descriptions of 'classic banjo' I have read. Or does it get lumped into the 'classic banjo' category simply because isolated rural people were still passing it down and playing it all throughout that time period? Am I missing the boat here?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>