Rice Vs Briggs? - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-29T07:10:19Zhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/rice-vs-briggs?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A77224&feed=yes&xn_auth=noJoel,
I read that Baur claim…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2017-01-17:2477478:Comment:1584062017-01-17T21:48:46.317ZManfred Kilianhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/ManfredKilian
<p>Joel,</p>
<p>I read that Baur claimed that Converse wrote the Briggs, but is there any evidence ?<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/rice-vs-briggs?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A77127#2477478Comment77263"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Also Frank Converse wrote the Briggs' Banjo Instructor, and mostly likely had involvement in the Rice book... So, that would be "Converse" too.</p>
<p>The ABM really captures…</p>
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<p>Joel,</p>
<p>I read that Baur claimed that Converse wrote the Briggs, but is there any evidence ?<br/> <br/> <cite>Joel Hooks said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/rice-vs-briggs?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A77127#2477478Comment77263"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Also Frank Converse wrote the Briggs' Banjo Instructor, and mostly likely had involvement in the Rice book... So, that would be "Converse" too.</p>
<p>The ABM really captures variations. "Rolls" and strings of triplets, 16th-8th-16th Habanera rhythm (more on that later), based on melodies that we have seen in early books.</p>
<p>I feel that the stroke style pieces in the ABM represent what Converse wanted to publish earlier.</p>
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</blockquote> Wow, I don't recall ever havi…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-04:2477478:Comment:774142012-11-04T03:51:19.506ZMatthew Mickletzhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/MatthewMickletz
<p>Wow, I don't recall ever having a similar conversation in my drumline days about drums, their history etc. I think we all just assumed a caveman banged on a goat, killed the goat, took its skin and made the first drum. So yeah, this discussion is a little deeper :D haha <br></br><br></br>In all seriousness, this is great! I'm always learning something new here. Every time i take my banjo out, to a reenactment or just to play for friends at the house, I get the "you can play that?", reenforcing…</p>
<p>Wow, I don't recall ever having a similar conversation in my drumline days about drums, their history etc. I think we all just assumed a caveman banged on a goat, killed the goat, took its skin and made the first drum. So yeah, this discussion is a little deeper :D haha <br/><br/>In all seriousness, this is great! I'm always learning something new here. Every time i take my banjo out, to a reenactment or just to play for friends at the house, I get the "you can play that?", reenforcing how much a niche we're in. </p> Tim I agree that Whoop Jambor…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-03:2477478:Comment:772252012-11-03T14:33:30.375ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>Tim I agree that Whoop Jamboree sounds like some banjo player who knew their way around the instrument, inventing some rich flourishes for a basic Juba, and beefing it up nicely. <em>Or</em>... maybe it's just that there are only so many patterns one can do, so some patterns just naturally get repeated in various tunes! We may never know, but I like both Juba and Whoop J. Whoop Jamboree is still to difficult for me to play. </p>
<p>Hmm...maybe I should take your advise and improvise…</p>
<p>Tim I agree that Whoop Jamboree sounds like some banjo player who knew their way around the instrument, inventing some rich flourishes for a basic Juba, and beefing it up nicely. <em>Or</em>... maybe it's just that there are only so many patterns one can do, so some patterns just naturally get repeated in various tunes! We may never know, but I like both Juba and Whoop J. Whoop Jamboree is still to difficult for me to play. </p>
<p>Hmm...maybe I should take your advise and improvise something, a 'bridge' tune half way between the two in complexity and call it Whup Juba ? :D Might be cool for beginners like me who are struggling to make the leap from Juba to Whoop jamboree...</p> I'm going to stretch this ove…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-03:2477478:Comment:772242012-11-03T13:46:51.124ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>I'm going to stretch this over to Buckley. I know Buckley contributed to Rice....maybe a lot! Some of the printing in the beginning of the 1860 book looks just like where the Rice book left off. That not being the main point, however. Look at "Buckley's Juba"...page 13. It looks like "Whoop Jamboree". I'm going out there to say, that "Whoop Jamboree" is Juba....as an extended improvisation, that somebody transcribed, or at least captured the essence of. THIS.....may be a look into the minds…</p>
<p>I'm going to stretch this over to Buckley. I know Buckley contributed to Rice....maybe a lot! Some of the printing in the beginning of the 1860 book looks just like where the Rice book left off. That not being the main point, however. Look at "Buckley's Juba"...page 13. It looks like "Whoop Jamboree". I'm going out there to say, that "Whoop Jamboree" is Juba....as an extended improvisation, that somebody transcribed, or at least captured the essence of. THIS.....may be a look into the minds of people playing tunes, and straying from the written page. If YOU have the skill and imagination.....play Juba....and Whoop....and then go off on your own. I'd like to see the variations.</p> You know that quote in Pete S…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-03:2477478:Comment:773722012-11-03T00:47:14.367ZJoel Hookshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/deuceswilde
<p>You know that quote in Pete Seeger's book ""there ain't no notes to the banjo, you just play it' -old time banjo player circa 1850" or something like that...</p>
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<p>Eli Kaufman likes to point out that that was a true statement. In 1850, Frank Converse had not applied the science of music to the banjo. ; )<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Bell Banjos said:…</cite></p>
<p>You know that quote in Pete Seeger's book ""there ain't no notes to the banjo, you just play it' -old time banjo player circa 1850" or something like that...</p>
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<p>Eli Kaufman likes to point out that that was a true statement. In 1850, Frank Converse had not applied the science of music to the banjo. ; )<br/> <br/> <cite>Bell Banjos said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/rice-vs-briggs?xg_source=activity&id=2477478%3ATopic%3A77166&page=3#2477478Comment77455"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>When I made my first banjo, I showed my grandpa. He said, "I didn't know you could play 'music' on a banjo." </p>
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</blockquote> When I made my first banjo, I…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-03:2477478:Comment:774552012-11-03T00:36:28.601ZBell Banjoshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TerryBell
<p>When I made my first banjo, I showed my grandpa. He said, "I didn't know you could play 'music' on a banjo." </p>
<p>When I made my first banjo, I showed my grandpa. He said, "I didn't know you could play 'music' on a banjo." </p> The episode referred to was a…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-03:2477478:Comment:774492012-11-03T00:25:57.335ZCarl Andertonhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/CarlAnderton
<p>The episode referred to was a banjo contest in St. Louis against a "western champion" named Kelly and Converse did indeed win a set of solid gold miniture deer antlers. Deer antlers were often hung in the pilothouse of steamboats and the prize represented that.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Strumelia said:…</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/rice-vs-briggs?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A77200&xg_source=activity#2477478Comment77133"></blockquote>
<p>The episode referred to was a banjo contest in St. Louis against a "western champion" named Kelly and Converse did indeed win a set of solid gold miniture deer antlers. Deer antlers were often hung in the pilothouse of steamboats and the prize represented that.<br/> <br/> <cite>Strumelia said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/rice-vs-briggs?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A77200&xg_source=activity#2477478Comment77133"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>A 'set' of <em>solid gold</em> deer antlers? What, were they like a half inch big each? Dude, nice earrings! lol!</p>
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</blockquote> Ah Strumelia, when the boys g…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-03:2477478:Comment:772002012-11-03T00:09:38.540ZMark Weemshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/MarkKellyWeems
<p>Ah Strumelia, when the boys go to fussing with each other, you are always there with a lovely calming voice!</p>
<p>I appreciate your presence here.</p>
<p>Ah Strumelia, when the boys go to fussing with each other, you are always there with a lovely calming voice!</p>
<p>I appreciate your presence here.</p> A 'set' of solid gold deer a…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-02:2477478:Comment:771332012-11-02T23:38:24.030ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>A 'set' of <em>solid gold</em> deer antlers? What, were they like a half inch big each? Dude, nice earrings! lol!</p>
<p>A 'set' of <em>solid gold</em> deer antlers? What, were they like a half inch big each? Dude, nice earrings! lol!</p> Offering up another small bit…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-11-02:2477478:Comment:772832012-11-02T23:18:39.893ZJoel Hookshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/deuceswilde
<p>Offering up another small bit of "Converse wrote the Briggs' book" evidence, besides that fact that he said he did.</p>
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<p>In his third letter, he tells the story of a banjo contest and how he won a set of solid gold dear antlers. That was in 1856. He the wrote this...</p>
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<p>"Parenthetically, I would add that this was the usual result of my various experiences (meaning winning banjo contests) and simply demonstrates the supremacy of musical principles vs. simplified, ear…</p>
<p>Offering up another small bit of "Converse wrote the Briggs' book" evidence, besides that fact that he said he did.</p>
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<p>In his third letter, he tells the story of a banjo contest and how he won a set of solid gold dear antlers. That was in 1856. He the wrote this...</p>
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<p>"Parenthetically, I would add that this was the usual result of my various experiences (meaning winning banjo contests) and simply demonstrates the supremacy of musical principles vs. simplified, ear or other methods."</p>
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<p>One could deduct that he was beating all banjoists in contest because he used "musical principles." He wrote (and it was written about him) that he was the first to apply music to the banjo-- the first real banjo instruction book was Briggs'. I'm pretty bad at math, but still... </p>