Minstrel? or just a Banjo player? - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-28T18:09:49Zhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/minstrel-or-just-a-banjo-player?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A68180&feed=yes&xn_auth=noGreat points Paul.
And isn't…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-03:2477478:Comment:682612012-06-03T17:22:43.708ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>Great points Paul. </p>
<p>And isn't 'Juba' more than just the minstrel style banjo tune?- aside from the tune we are familiar with now, I thought Juba was a whole style of singing, dancing, and African-influenced body-patting/clapping in rhythms - sort of a one man band which ties in with your reference to home made entertainment. i do find it hard to envision well heeled city folk going to banjo academies in Boston to 'get down' with Juba moves though... lol!</p>
<p>Great points Paul. </p>
<p>And isn't 'Juba' more than just the minstrel style banjo tune?- aside from the tune we are familiar with now, I thought Juba was a whole style of singing, dancing, and African-influenced body-patting/clapping in rhythms - sort of a one man band which ties in with your reference to home made entertainment. i do find it hard to envision well heeled city folk going to banjo academies in Boston to 'get down' with Juba moves though... lol!</p> I also think the dance connec…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-03:2477478:Comment:683632012-06-03T17:09:23.507ZPaul Certohttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/PaulCerto
<p>I also think the dance connection is important, perhaps more so than we realize. As fashions changed, dances evolved with them. Colonial era dances were impossible in Civil War era dresses, so dances had to change. The music may well have evolved with it. Dance steps done by different races, classes, and regional populations may well have been very different. The music for these different dances may have used different rhythmic emphasis. There was a dance in the 1920's called The Grizzly…</p>
<p>I also think the dance connection is important, perhaps more so than we realize. As fashions changed, dances evolved with them. Colonial era dances were impossible in Civil War era dresses, so dances had to change. The music may well have evolved with it. Dance steps done by different races, classes, and regional populations may well have been very different. The music for these different dances may have used different rhythmic emphasis. There was a dance in the 1920's called The Grizzly Bear. It included an embrace involving a certain amount of "fondling" and was NOT done in "polite society." But some of the dance steps are nearly lost as well. Literacy, and evolving technology also plays a part. Home made music was basic entertainment for most people, prior to radio and widespread education. We think nothing of sitting down to a newspaper, or a good book, or various electronic entertainments, but in the 19th century people who hadn't learned to read had no such outlet. Whoever you are, you're reading my verbose pomposity right now, for what it's worth. :-) For those who didn't play an instrument, singing, dancing, and story telling were major amusements. Some people who were literate learned from the tutors, others from face to face teaching, some by listening and copying as best they could. Did they make a few mistakes- or develop a personal style?</p>
<p>"Style is based on limitations."- John Hartford</p>
<p>"I tried to play what I liked to hear, but I made some mistakes. Those mistakes are what people call the Chuck Berry Style."- Chuck Berry</p>
<p>As to the original question, if asked by a listener what style I am playing, I say variously songs common in the early to mid 19th century, or Old Time mountain Folk music, depending on what I am playing. This isn't really any more or less accurate than Minstrel Style, but if someone has a preconception of Minstrel Music, it avoids a long dissertation that may end up clouding the issue more than clarifying it. Once you add in my lack of command of language, it could be very cloudy! I try to talk more about the songs and their origins than the style of music. Explaining that a song dates to a certain era and was used for dancing, or as a campaign song, etc, usually is sufficient info for most listeners. I'm not convinced the term "Minstrel Music" was used during what we call the Minstrel Period in any case.</p>
<p>Paul </p> What are the earliest known t…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-03:2477478:Comment:682562012-06-03T03:27:50.880ZNicholas A Bechtelhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/NicholasABechtel
<p>What are the earliest known tutors. Is it Briggs?</p>
<p>What are the earliest known tutors. Is it Briggs?</p> The tutors are not the Prime…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-03:2477478:Comment:683622012-06-03T02:33:55.956ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>The tutors are not the Prime Movers. Think of them as transcribing moments in time.</p>
<p>Whatever they convey, it was not invented there. I think they were a reflection.</p>
<p>The tutors are not the Prime Movers. Think of them as transcribing moments in time.</p>
<p>Whatever they convey, it was not invented there. I think they were a reflection.</p> I agree! tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-02:2477478:Comment:682552012-06-02T23:12:26.677ZNicholas A Bechtelhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/NicholasABechtel
<p>I agree! </p>
<p>I agree! </p> Yes, I suppose the dance step…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-02:2477478:Comment:683502012-06-02T18:03:28.457ZAl Smitleyhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/AlSmitley
<p>Yes, I suppose the dance steps of various periods which are easy to document, would help to determine the tempo for dance tunes. I don't know if I'm getting old or what but I prefer tunes played considerably slower than what I often hear.......which is good for me because I can't play fast, anyway. If I hear a dance tune going too fast, it makes me feel uncomfortable, even if all I'm doing is listening. Hornpipes were always my favorite because of the lilt. If they are played as a reel,…</p>
<p>Yes, I suppose the dance steps of various periods which are easy to document, would help to determine the tempo for dance tunes. I don't know if I'm getting old or what but I prefer tunes played considerably slower than what I often hear.......which is good for me because I can't play fast, anyway. If I hear a dance tune going too fast, it makes me feel uncomfortable, even if all I'm doing is listening. Hornpipes were always my favorite because of the lilt. If they are played as a reel, they considerably lose their appeal to my ears. Bluegrass hurts my head and raises my blood pressure......and I'm not sure what physical harm I might suffer if I forced myself to listen all the way through a complete selection.</p> Tim, I very much agree that t…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-02:2477478:Comment:681992012-06-02T17:48:13.168ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>Tim, I very much agree that tempos may very well have been slower then than what we interpret now. For example, old-time fiddle tunes, which were originally played for dances, are often now played at speeds impossibly fast to dance to...what we call 'festival speed'. I like to play slower (and lower) than most banjo players I know. I really appreciate the 'enjoyable' tempos I hear in most of your videos. The faster one plays, the less time there is for any one note to sound or resonate. …</p>
<p>Tim, I very much agree that tempos may very well have been slower then than what we interpret now. For example, old-time fiddle tunes, which were originally played for dances, are often now played at speeds impossibly fast to dance to...what we call 'festival speed'. I like to play slower (and lower) than most banjo players I know. I really appreciate the 'enjoyable' tempos I hear in most of your videos. The faster one plays, the less time there is for any one note to sound or resonate. This can have an overall detrimental effect on the music and how it is enjoyed.</p> And what a lobar of love. It…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-02:2477478:Comment:684512012-06-02T17:17:31.830ZNicholas A Bechtelhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/NicholasABechtel
<p>And what a lobar of love. It is just that a... reference point. And Thank you. I am a slow reader of music and when I see the written music..I start hearing it and getting an idea how the song flows, being able to go and do a quick reference makes all the difference in the world.</p>
<p>And what a lobar of love. It is just that a... reference point. And Thank you. I am a slow reader of music and when I see the written music..I start hearing it and getting an idea how the song flows, being able to go and do a quick reference makes all the difference in the world.</p> I wanted to make a quick poin…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-02:2477478:Comment:683472012-06-02T13:29:14.253ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>I wanted to make a quick point about reading music and using the tutors. I totally agree about the power and value of oral transmission. With a lot of this material, we have a broken chain. The books are a way to jump back and pick up music at a fixed point. You get many of the important elements...pitch and duration. It lacks the unspoken element of feel. This is speculative.</p>
<p>One of the big goals I had in playing all the music from the tutors was not to entertain, but to create some…</p>
<p>I wanted to make a quick point about reading music and using the tutors. I totally agree about the power and value of oral transmission. With a lot of this material, we have a broken chain. The books are a way to jump back and pick up music at a fixed point. You get many of the important elements...pitch and duration. It lacks the unspoken element of feel. This is speculative.</p>
<p>One of the big goals I had in playing all the music from the tutors was not to entertain, but to create some sort of record of the music as it is presented by the ink on the paper. I may not get points for creativity on a lot of them, but at least it provides a "jumping off" point for others. From what I play, it was nothing before, but becomes something that people can either copy, or interpret on their own. Once that basic representation of the tune is out there, individual creativity and interpretation should take over.</p>
<p>Some of the interesting ones are the tunes that have survived and morphed. To compare them to the root tune is interesting. Once again, we will never know exactly what things sounded like, but I bet it's pretty close. Tempos and interpretating them remains the single most challengeing and interesting thing to me with this music. A slightly different feel, and you've transformed the music completely. I have been attracted to the idea that many of the tempos may have been slower than we could imagine. I believe that based on the annunciation needed to present this stuff unamplified, the response and quality of earlier instruments, and a study of dance tempos from the period.</p>
<p>All in all, fascinating......and never ending. Love it. </p> lol Man I wish I could read…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-06-01:2477478:Comment:684462012-06-01T21:29:32.635ZSteve Jeterhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/SteveJeter
<p>lol Man I wish I could read notes! but , I guess Im too lazy at this point to want to learn. . I wish Id have learned as a young guy,but all my heroes didnt read , Stevie Ray BB etc.</p>
<p> I live just south of Houston TX, I guess the closest player is Dan in Dallas.</p>
<p> I have a flip camera, I know not tech, but Im not either. Its EASY to operate ok for 100 bucks<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Nicholas A Bechtel said:…</cite></p>
<p>lol Man I wish I could read notes! but , I guess Im too lazy at this point to want to learn. . I wish Id have learned as a young guy,but all my heroes didnt read , Stevie Ray BB etc.</p>
<p> I live just south of Houston TX, I guess the closest player is Dan in Dallas.</p>
<p> I have a flip camera, I know not tech, but Im not either. Its EASY to operate ok for 100 bucks<br/> <br/> <cite>Nicholas A Bechtel said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/minstrel-or-just-a-banjo-player?xg_source=activity&id=2477478%3ATopic%3A67792&page=3#2477478Comment68193"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>where do you live Steve? It is the same out here, though a gentleman here in town just contacted me and who is just getting into this style. Were getting together Sunday. I really want to go to the EABG just to finally see these people that have influenced me and listen and learn from what everyone's experiences bring to the music.</p>
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<p>Gonna have to wait until next year. Saving my $$ for the epic trip. What I have heard from you sounds great..looky there no reading of notes or nuthin! I'm trying to find a decent camera with a higher recording ability that the one I have, then I will post something. Really would like to get some honest feed back from my peers.</p>
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<p><br/> <cite>Steve Jeter said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/minstrel-or-just-a-banjo-player?xg_source=activity&id=2477478%3ATopic%3A67792&page=3#2477478Comment68191"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> that cool , viva la differance! the first minsterel song I heard was Carl playing "Coon hunt Walkaround" still love it. and I imagine , it was played " correctly" LOL</p>
<p> I can see how knowing the song the same as others is helpful,,, but theres nobody to play with down here anyway. And Ive always been more of a " unaffiliated" type at reenactments and festivals.</p>
<p> Its cool for us all to get the enjoyment we desire out of this music.</p>
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