Early Music - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-28T13:30:14Zhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/early-music?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A70848&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWe WILL find that Frank Conve…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:707692012-07-12T22:28:36.210ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>We WILL find that Frank Converse cylinder. Then we will know.</p>
<p>We WILL find that Frank Converse cylinder. Then we will know.</p> I agree. I like both SMN and…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:710462012-07-12T22:07:36.405ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>I agree. I like both SMN and tab! But nothing compares to actually listening to recordings to get the real flavor of a tune. Too bad we don't have any of that for minstrel era- but a bare bones version is always better than nothing!</p>
<p>Is there a surviving copy of the Converse tab book?</p>
<p>Home made tabs are a known thing for musicians to invent for themselves and use, even singers ...so i wondered if anyone knew of any scraps of paper of banjo tunes or songs that survived in hand…</p>
<p>I agree. I like both SMN and tab! But nothing compares to actually listening to recordings to get the real flavor of a tune. Too bad we don't have any of that for minstrel era- but a bare bones version is always better than nothing!</p>
<p>Is there a surviving copy of the Converse tab book?</p>
<p>Home made tabs are a known thing for musicians to invent for themselves and use, even singers ...so i wondered if anyone knew of any scraps of paper of banjo tunes or songs that survived in hand written tab from the minstrel era.</p> Wasn't that a Dobson thing?..…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:707682012-07-12T21:38:09.611ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>Wasn't that a Dobson thing?.....I also believe Converse did a tab book.</p>
<p>I like tab. I use it to teach beginning guitar all the time. It makes complicated things simple.</p>
<p>One thing about banjo tabs.....yoiu have so much of the same notes over and over, it's really not that much of a stretch to just read the notes. You have to learn to read rhythms anyway...tab or not.</p>
<p>Wasn't that a Dobson thing?.....I also believe Converse did a tab book.</p>
<p>I like tab. I use it to teach beginning guitar all the time. It makes complicated things simple.</p>
<p>One thing about banjo tabs.....yoiu have so much of the same notes over and over, it's really not that much of a stretch to just read the notes. You have to learn to read rhythms anyway...tab or not.</p> I think the tutors and method…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:708552012-07-12T21:33:25.891ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>I think the tutors and method books are <em>terrific</em>- and how lucky to have that surviving accurate snapshot of how some (or maybe even <em>most)</em> people taught, learned, and played the banjo in that time period. It's natural to then make the 'logical' jump to conclude that there was basically only one banjo tuning in use then, because that's what the books used. But I think it's a mistake to suggest this based on the survival of bound banjo teaching method books that were printed…</p>
<p>I think the tutors and method books are <em>terrific</em>- and how lucky to have that surviving accurate snapshot of how some (or maybe even <em>most)</em> people taught, learned, and played the banjo in that time period. It's natural to then make the 'logical' jump to conclude that there was basically only one banjo tuning in use then, because that's what the books used. But I think it's a mistake to suggest this based on the survival of bound banjo teaching method books that were printed for the mass market. Unfortunately we have no field recordings from that time, no collections from Alan Lomaxes, or Harry Smiths or other folklorists which might have portrayed a broader spectrum of rural banjo styles that were not written down in standard notation as formal commercially sold teaching method books.</p>
<p>This site is about 'Minstrel Banjo' of course, with the subtitle 'For enthusiasts of early banjo', which might include all banjo styles of the minstrel era -if we had the documentation. But all we have aside from the tutors are passed down aural remnants of other styles and influences, and a few scattered written mentions.</p>
<p>Does anyone know of any surviving paper sheets of home made banjo <em>TABS</em> from the 1800's? Surely some musicians somewhere must have jotted down banjo tunes in some self-invented tab form if they couldn't read music.</p> Pop culture. I don't think pe…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:710452012-07-12T21:13:17.759ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>Pop culture. I don't think people intentionally preserve it. They ride it. Changes are observed later.</p>
<p>Pop culture. I don't think people intentionally preserve it. They ride it. Changes are observed later.</p> Paul -- You haven't said what…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:709432012-07-12T20:31:39.709ZJim Daltonhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JimDalton
<p>Paul -- You haven't said what the "earlier documentary evidence" is that supports the surviving oral traditions (of 160 years later).</p>
<p></p>
<p>Actually, we are wasting a lot of time on ONE TUNING that we all seem to agree was used by someone somewhere in the earlier days. Again, I am not denying the fact that there were oral traditions and that the players in these oral traditions LIKELY used a variety of different tunings. I am just not sure why so much energy is being expended on…</p>
<p>Paul -- You haven't said what the "earlier documentary evidence" is that supports the surviving oral traditions (of 160 years later).</p>
<p></p>
<p>Actually, we are wasting a lot of time on ONE TUNING that we all seem to agree was used by someone somewhere in the earlier days. Again, I am not denying the fact that there were oral traditions and that the players in these oral traditions LIKELY used a variety of different tunings. I am just not sure why so much energy is being expended on denigrating the validity of written sources.</p>
<p></p> Actually Frank reported it in…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:709422012-07-12T19:29:16.357ZJoel Hookshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/deuceswilde
Actually Frank reported it in 1901, not 1850. As to the mind and memories, read up on the studies done on eyewitness testimony. It has been found to be the least creditable evidence that can be cited. Far from reliable documentation. Really google it.
Actually Frank reported it in 1901, not 1850. As to the mind and memories, read up on the studies done on eyewitness testimony. It has been found to be the least creditable evidence that can be cited. Far from reliable documentation. Really google it. I consider oral and aural tra…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:708542012-07-12T19:17:38.394ZJohn Mascialehttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JohnMasciale
<p>I consider oral and aural tradition much like the game telephone. Have some one whisper something to someone, and have them pass it on. After a while you almost can't identify the original message. As a case in point, Angelina Baker, and Angeline the Baker. Both a lot of fun to play. It is pretty clear that Angeline the Baker came from Angelina Baker. However, it has taken a life of its own.</p>
<p>I consider oral and aural tradition much like the game telephone. Have some one whisper something to someone, and have them pass it on. After a while you almost can't identify the original message. As a case in point, Angelina Baker, and Angeline the Baker. Both a lot of fun to play. It is pretty clear that Angeline the Baker came from Angelina Baker. However, it has taken a life of its own.</p> Ah, but Paul, WHEN do we have…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:708502012-07-12T17:51:28.452ZJim Daltonhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JimDalton
<p>Ah, but Paul, WHEN do we have confirmation of it being used?<br></br><br></br>1850s? '60s, '70s? Or only much later, after the fact?<br></br><br></br>It seems as if a double standard is applied sometimes. I don't deny aural or oral traditions but I have trouble with the "we say they did, because you can't prove they didn't" approach that many take toward this kind of thing.<br></br><br></br>For remote time periods like this, I prefer to take documentation as a better jumping off point than speculation backwards…</p>
<p>Ah, but Paul, WHEN do we have confirmation of it being used?<br/><br/>1850s? '60s, '70s? Or only much later, after the fact?<br/><br/>It seems as if a double standard is applied sometimes. I don't deny aural or oral traditions but I have trouble with the "we say they did, because you can't prove they didn't" approach that many take toward this kind of thing.<br/><br/>For remote time periods like this, I prefer to take documentation as a better jumping off point than speculation backwards from living traditions.</p>
<p></p> Books....I'm glad somebody wr…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2012-07-12:2477478:Comment:708492012-07-12T17:32:28.205ZTim Twisshttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/TimTwiss
<p>Books....I'm glad somebody wrote down some of the stuff others played by ear.</p>
<p>Books....I'm glad somebody wrote down some of the stuff others played by ear.</p>