Double C - Minstrel Banjo2024-03-28T23:47:15Zhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A172176&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI suspect that the reason man…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-30:2477478:Comment:1721872018-04-30T14:42:30.558ZJohn Mascialehttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/JohnMasciale
<p>I suspect that the reason many of the Briggs tunes don't use the bass string is that they pre-date the adding of the bass string (some time around 1840), which makes them ideal for playing on a 4 string gourd banjo. I do switch my bass string back and forth for a few tunes, but try to leave it low for the majority of tunes.</p>
<p>I suspect that the reason many of the Briggs tunes don't use the bass string is that they pre-date the adding of the bass string (some time around 1840), which makes them ideal for playing on a 4 string gourd banjo. I do switch my bass string back and forth for a few tunes, but try to leave it low for the majority of tunes.</p> There are always many excepti…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1719862018-04-28T17:10:43.646ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>There are always many exceptions in particular tunes, but generally speaking...</p>
<p>In oldtime clawhammer the thumb is used most often as a rhythmic tool or syncopation note- either on the 5th string drone (part of the bump-a-dit-ty) OR as part of the oft-used 'dropthumb' rhythm feature.</p>
<p>But either way, it's most often a secondary rhythm note rather than a main melody note.</p>
<p>In minstrel/stroke style tunes of the 1800s, I notice the thumb does those same things, but ALSO more…</p>
<p>There are always many exceptions in particular tunes, but generally speaking...</p>
<p>In oldtime clawhammer the thumb is used most often as a rhythmic tool or syncopation note- either on the 5th string drone (part of the bump-a-dit-ty) OR as part of the oft-used 'dropthumb' rhythm feature.</p>
<p>But either way, it's most often a secondary rhythm note rather than a main melody note.</p>
<p>In minstrel/stroke style tunes of the 1800s, I notice the thumb does those same things, but ALSO more often is used to play main melody notes of the tune- in a more dominant role similar to the main lead finger notes. There are some tunes in the tutor books with fingering specifically indicating the use of many thumbed notes (sometimes many thumbed notes in sequence) on different strings- for important segments of the melody. Thumbed notes in minstrel tunes are not as restricted to part of a dropthumb rhythm lick or 5th string rhythm syncopation. Lots of triplets, too. And when full chord brushes happen in stroke style, they usually are a very purposeful and dramatic accent, often snapping across each string in precise sequence, not 'folded into' the tune like they tend to be in clawhammer.</p>
<p>Look at Paul Draper's recent video here of Lanagan's Ball- the first part has sooo many main melody notes played with the same finger, all in rapid sequence. You'd never really see that in oldtime clawhammer- they'd break it up with a bunch of dropthumbs rocking back and forth over the strings- adding lots of secondary rhythmic syncopated notes in the process.<br/><br/>The resulting sound with all these main thumbed notes feels more melodic single note-ish. All this is hard for me to describe- it comes down to my general impressions when going back and forth between oldtime playing and minstrel playing. I like to observe the differences. I can't explain how, but the use of Briggs tuning (like a low version of double C but with the second string lowered a half step) somehow facilitates playing the characteristics of stroke style. <br/>Maybe it's just habit, but if I raise that 2nd string and am in a higher version of doubleC/doubleD, I just automatically start playing in clawhammer style- that doubleC tuning seems to facilitate playing in oldtime style. Though clawhammer style and stroke style share 'some' of the same moves, they are unique enough from each other to produce a different overall sound and feel.</p>
<p>Again, there are many exceptions- there are some tunes in the old tutors that are pretty easily played in clawhammer style. But to approach all the 1800s tunes by tuning and playing them in clawhammer style definitely gives the tunes a more modern feel. I'm not saying anyone's doing that here, nor saying that it's good or bad... but some people do that when they get their first 'minstrel style' banjo. They tune and play the minstrel tunes in clawhammer because It's simply easier to avoid a new learning curve. Stroke style players can usually hear the difference.</p>
<p>--> Scott- the Rice/ high bass tuning is like a lowered 'standard G' banjo tuning (gDBDG), so you can play any oldtime clawhammer G tunes you already might know in that high bass tuning without learning new fingering.</p> I think Converse's tunes are…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1722632018-04-28T15:28:46.833ZScott Dannekerhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/ScottDanneker
<p>I think Converse's tunes are more thummby aren't they? Original Essence of Old Virginny and Phil Rice's Excellsior Jig are other examples of what Greg Adams called "thumb lead" tunes. What ever happened to Greg anyway?</p>
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Rob Mohr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A171985&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2477478Comment171985"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>As secondary point you…</p>
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<p>I think Converse's tunes are more thummby aren't they? Original Essence of Old Virginny and Phil Rice's Excellsior Jig are other examples of what Greg Adams called "thumb lead" tunes. What ever happened to Greg anyway?</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Rob Mohr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A171985&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2477478Comment171985"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>As secondary point you brought up, should my thumb pick out the melody notes? I find my finger does most of that and my thumb is mostly filler. I suppose this is more Briggs than Converse. </p>
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</blockquote> Thanks Lisa, it's finally beg…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1720622018-04-28T13:50:31.136ZScott Dannekerhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/ScottDanneker
<p>Thanks Lisa, it's finally beginning to make some sense to me.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Strumelia said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?xg_source=activity#2477478Comment172172"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
<p>Briggs tuning is like double C (with a low bass string) BUT with Briggs (for the key of G) the second string (F#) is a half step lower (<span>dGDF#A) </span>which means you need to fret it along with the 1st string to produce your tonic…</p>
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<p>Thanks Lisa, it's finally beginning to make some sense to me.<br/> <br/> <cite>Strumelia said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?xg_source=activity#2477478Comment172172"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
<p>Briggs tuning is like double C (with a low bass string) BUT with Briggs (for the key of G) the second string (F#) is a half step lower (<span>dGDF#A) </span>which means you need to fret it along with the 1st string to produce your tonic chord. (in double d or double c you just fret the 1st string on second fret to get the tonic chord) This may seem at first glance to be an unnecessary hindrance -to be avoided by just tuning that 2nd string higher to begin with so you don't have to fret it (like a high G version of double C or double D). </p>
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</blockquote> As secondary point you brough…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1719852018-04-28T12:57:18.392ZRob Mohrhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/RobMohr
<p>As secondary point you brought up, should my thumb pick out the melody notes? I find my finger does most of that and my thumb is mostly filler. I suppose this is more Briggs than Converse. </p>
<p>As secondary point you brought up, should my thumb pick out the melody notes? I find my finger does most of that and my thumb is mostly filler. I suppose this is more Briggs than Converse. </p> Ok, you said:
I keep hearing…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1719842018-04-28T12:33:37.502ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>Ok, you said:</p>
<p><em>I keep hearing about the "almighty" double C tuning. What exactly is the attraction?</em></p>
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<p>But to pinpoint 'what the attraction is', it'd help to know where/from whom do you keep hearing about it? The double C tuning is used with some frequency in oldtime/clawhammer playing, but seldom in Bluegrass or minstrel genre playing.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Rob Mohr said:…</cite></p>
<p>Ok, you said:</p>
<p><em>I keep hearing about the "almighty" double C tuning. What exactly is the attraction?</em></p>
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<p>But to pinpoint 'what the attraction is', it'd help to know where/from whom do you keep hearing about it? The double C tuning is used with some frequency in oldtime/clawhammer playing, but seldom in Bluegrass or minstrel genre playing.<br/> <br/> <cite>Rob Mohr said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A172176&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2477478Comment172176"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>LOL...i wasn't trying start a tuning discussion. I was just wondering about the attraction</p>
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</blockquote> LOL...i wasn't trying start a…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1721762018-04-28T04:29:51.647ZRob Mohrhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/RobMohr
<p>LOL...i wasn't trying start a tuning discussion. I was just wondering about the attraction</p>
<p>LOL...i wasn't trying start a tuning discussion. I was just wondering about the attraction</p> If you play with a fiddler th…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-28:2477478:Comment:1721752018-04-28T00:01:25.168ZStrumeliahttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/Strumelia
<p>If you play with a fiddler they will have certain 'needs' based on fiddle tunings/fingerings in certain keys. </p>
<p>If you play with a fiddler they will have certain 'needs' based on fiddle tunings/fingerings in certain keys. </p> LOL Scott Danneker said:
Oh…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-27:2477478:Comment:1719832018-04-27T23:08:45.010ZChris Prietohttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/caprieto
<p>LOL<br/> <br/> <cite>Scott Danneker said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A172059&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2477478Comment172059"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Oh boy. Tunning stuff again!<br/></p>
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<p>LOL<br/> <br/> <cite>Scott Danneker said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/forum/topics/double-c?commentId=2477478%3AComment%3A172059&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2477478Comment172059"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Oh boy. Tunning stuff again!<br/></p>
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</blockquote> Oh boy. Tunning stuff again!…tag:minstrelbanjo.ning.com,2018-04-27:2477478:Comment:1720592018-04-27T22:59:40.111ZScott Dannekerhttp://minstrelbanjo.ning.com/profile/ScottDanneker
<p>Oh boy. Tunning stuff again!<br/> <br/></p>
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<p>Oh boy. Tunning stuff again!<br/> <br/></p>
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